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TOPIC: Okyanos use lipogems - story

Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 05:26 #3680

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 10:28 #3681

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I've spoken to Matt about Lipogems. I am not clear on how this is different from the ADRC output and what are the implications. Does anyone have a handle on the differences and why Okyanos is using it over Celution for orthopedic apps? Looks simple and must be cheaper but what about the output? Fas, do you understand the differences here? Seems like a hybrid between ADRC output from the Celution and the Puregraft output that goes into the Celution. No enzyme is used in Lipogems it seems.

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 10:54 #3682

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in the second video Caplan explain it -- min 3.50

what i understand is that the msc where injected together with the fat cells and in the body the msc´s are going to the affected area and doing all the wonderful things of healing.

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 10:57 #3683

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Fas, do you understand the differences here? Seems like a hybrid between ADRC output from the Celution and the Puregraft output that goes into the Celution. No enzyme is used in Lipogems it seems.


Of course, I watched the Caplan video with high interest. Based on what he said and what I have already known- yes- their is no enzyme digestion, but ringer´s solution is used (just as with Puregraft) to clean the graft.

So- you have basically a "cleaned graft" of which Caplan says, the adipocytes (i.e. the fat cells) protect the MSCs and pericytes which are hidden between the "fat cells" and are released over time as the adipocyte structure breaks down.

So basically a fat graft- which can be useful for localized ortho treatment or any soft tissue application I guess. Whether it has more efficacy than ADRCs remain to be seen. It certainly would be a hell of alot cheaper.
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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 11:57 #3684

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maybe a few additional remarks.

I think ADRCs are perfectly safe without adipocytes or embedded in them for local treatment.

From a scientific perspective though- autologous treatment has its disadvantage of being variable by patient i.e. the quality of cells differ especially with elderly (although much less drastic with ADRCs than compared to BMRCs)

Obviously with such graft you cannot reliably count the cells or determine their quality and nature (type of cell). That is certainly a disadvantage from a scientific and regularly perspective, but I think Okyanos would not care all that much in view of the cost differential. :winky: :whistle:
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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 15:27 #3685

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So its basically the same output that comes from puregraft and would not be suitable for an IV application.

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 15:39 #3686

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Okyanos is using the cytori solution iv in parallel

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 08 Mar 2015 17:01 #3688

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So its basically the same output that comes from puregraft and would not be suitable for an IV application.


Somebody from Lipogems might not agree with that from a quality perspective, but I think thats just about right yes.
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Okyanos use lipogems - story 09 Mar 2015 08:33 #3691

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Another way too look at this is that Lipogems are one step below an enhanced fat graft (i.e. Puregraft output juiced up with additional ADRCs). Aside from being cheaper, for cosmetic applications it probably would not need FDA approval. However, It would need FDA approval if injected into the knee, IMO.
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Okyanos use lipogems - story 09 Mar 2015 12:27 #3695

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Anything else than to pad and cushion in soft tissue apps yes. I agree with you there for the US.

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 09 Mar 2015 13:20 #3699

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After listening to Dr Caplan's talk in which he says that, (and I paraphrase), 'after injecting the adipocytes, in 4-5 days the MSCs migrate out of the adipocytes and do their healing,' I must assume that this treatment is not indicated for acute injuries such as stroke or heart attack because of the length of time it takes the MSCs to present. My conclusions based on his statements seem incongruent with I think I know about MSC treatment, so, if I missed something, please don't hesitate to correct.

Also, the pericytes he mentions have other functions than those mentioned, eg, CNS.

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Okyanos use lipogems - story 09 Mar 2015 13:40 #3700

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:grin: :grin:

No artery or vain- let alone the heart would appreciate loads of fat to be dumped into them. :winky:

Make sure to view the Caplan video on Cytx-investor.com or read the blog article..

About Caplan and other things

But you got it right, that the pericytes cannot react and become MSCs - the problem is the patient would likely be dead with all that LipoGems stuff in his/her heart.
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