Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
The Company
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution

Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 06:08 #8606

  • fas
  • fas's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • May the fat be with you
  • Posts: 3295
  • Thank you received: 1110
The past two days I have been doing a lot of soul searching about whether I want to "überhaupt" stay involved with Cytori after they turned to developing that lethal filth, which is one of the liposomal product candidates they "plan" to acquire from Azaya. To me there are a lot of "bad killing" drugs in conventional medicine- thereof chemo drugs and statins pretty much on top of that list for me together with some other stuff, but than again, I decided to ignore those 2 product candidates going forward and will continue to focus solely on the unique Cell Therapy technology and DO have an interest in the nanoparticle distribution technology, which DOES seem to be synergistic to Cytori´s technology and can catapult the Company into sphere´s of unknown large proportion, due to becoming highly attractive to BP for potentially producing druggable (=patentable) liposome based products.
In order for beginners into Cell Technology to understand that a bit, we have to turn first to Techung Lee´s hamsters. I learned of those hamsters myself about 5 years ago, whilst doing research for my article "Hardcore- the power of the Gemisch"- which article has a fantastic video from Cellmedicine´s owner, Neil Riordan on the power of the Gemisch in Autoimmune, in which he also touches (at minute 16.00+) on those hamsters and the paper written by Techung Lee et al, which makes this discovery so exciting. I put this article back online yesterday under Research Notes- link HERE
Anyway- as a start of this thread- just the video now, which is highly recommended to view completely but for purposes of this topic- just the 2 minutes on Lee´s hamsters as I said from minute 16.00 onwards for 2-3 minutes.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 06:59 #8607

  • fas
  • fas's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • May the fat be with you
  • Posts: 3295
  • Thank you received: 1110
Assuming you have listened to what Neil Riordan said in the video, you should have a basic understanding as what is summarized in the image below-

so- it did not make a difference to the hamsters in the experiments, whether the cells were delivered at the site of injury- the heart- or that the cells were injected in a muscle, from which they normally "cannot escape" or that the cytokines from the culture medium were injected.
In all cases it was mainly (only?) the paracrine action of the cytokines, which took care of the therapeutic impact, which schematically can be visualized in the following image (from my article- Mechanisms of Therapeutic Action- link- HERE


With other words- all that small stuff- the Cytokines or trophic factors, which is a encompassing denomination of tiny proteins (some also include growth factors and neurological transmitters) - basically all matter which is involved in CELL SIGNALLING, since that is key- inducing endogenous (or resident) cells to do something to repair tissue.

Anyway- using those tiny things of approx. 10 kDalton, instead of cells could have heaps of advantages, which I do not have to elaborate here - the Company will do that in due course. Key of course is, those cytokines, will not have the CXCR4 expression, which the cells do and therefore can home in to the location of acute injury. Those cytokines are in need to be guided, I guess- and this is where the Azaya technology will come in handy.....:grin:

Anyway - first- the paper by Techung Lee et all, which you can review if you like (is well written) and just the observation that the paper is on Bone Marrow MSC´s- i.e. cultured and cytokines from the CULTURE medium was used.
In Cytori´s case, I presume it is still important to "capture" the trophic factors of the Gemisch and how to do that, is beyond my knowledge, but should be possible I presume. :yep:

File Attachment:

File Name: 2009-Techung-Lee-Hamsters.pdf
File Size: 1,063 KB
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 07:25 #8608

  • fas
  • fas's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • May the fat be with you
  • Posts: 3295
  • Thank you received: 1110
The statement in the announcement said-

“We are working diligently with Azaya to consummate the Acquisition so that we can exploit the inherent unique synergies that are present and which we believe will allow Cytori to leap forward in its intended development of next-generation, ‘druggable’ regenerative medicine products.


Now- I guess that encapsulated cytokines can be varied in many ways- and can be autologous or allogeneic (since no DNA or RNA) and are therefore clearly DRUGS. But than again- since human tissue, unlikely to have a negative impact to the micro-infrastructure of the tissue which they target. I.e. very safe, and presumably there will come a day when the FDA will differentiate due to safety between these type of drugs of human tissue versus chemical drugs and compounds.

Anyway- had a first glance at this liposomal technology and the last generation seems to really fit...:whistle:
(For info- liposomes are carriers which carry payloads or "freight say" inside their vesicle to targeted tissue)


This latest generation is the most advanced liposome system. PEGylated liposomes with targeting ligands (small proteins, peptides and small molecules) have the potential of specific targeted delivery to the disease site through ligand-receptor binding.
And ligand binding (or cell signaling) is what paracrine cell therapy is all about...:bye:
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 08:30 #8609

  • rodney.strongg
  • rodney.strongg's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1277
  • Thank you received: 18
Fas, keep in mind that your top two "offensive" products acquired in the Azaya deal are likely to be partnered-off to BP and will provide the needed cash to continue future stem-cell development including integration of Azaya's cytokine and other technology. Those two products are actually very important in the "cash picture" and will help to reduce future dilution.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 08:54 #8610

  • fas
  • fas's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • May the fat be with you
  • Posts: 3295
  • Thank you received: 1110

rodney.strongg wrote: Fas, keep in mind that your top two "offensive" products acquired in the Azaya deal are likely to be partnered-off to BP and will provide the needed cash to continue future stem-cell development including integration of Azaya's cytokine and other technology. Those two products are actually very important in the "cash picture" and will help to reduce future dilution.


Rodney- I know all that. Cytori has not the means, not the know-how, not anything that would make them "in control and capable" to even touch that.
There are several aspects, that make me uncomfortable in Cytori succeeding in finding partners at the right conditions-

  • The fact that Azaya had everything on the market for more than 14 months and of all Companies Cytori took the bait in view of their highly filled money coffers. :KO:

  • Hedrick´s track record in the past 13 years in closing deals of any significance or advising Calhoun in that respect

  • The fact that the time and effort went to Due Diligence for a Purchase Investigation since August 2016, instead of acquiring partners for CCT apps, I find extremely disturbing

  • I guess anybody with a clear mind, will have sympathy for those concerns :whistle:

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 09:50 #8611

    • myownhedgefund
    • myownhedgefund's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2761
    • Thank you received: 199
    The only way this makes sense is that the light bulb finally went on and they had a admission of what they have done in the last 10+ years has been one GIANT FAILURE !

    If targeting is indeed what is needed then I also view this is something I have said all along with the IV approach. There was nothing to stop the cells to going to areas for repair you don't want them to.

    Others may disagree but I think WST was right. They are now going for off the shelf.

    I think it also cant be ignored that the timing of 6 months before the p3 STAR readout has to raise a eyebrow. Cytori trials don't seem to have the best track record. Insurance ? Concern ? Diversification ? A attempt to breakout of a niche player mold ?

    DOV's recent comments on solid answers from the company on patents also would get addressed if this is the future. (if we survive)

    Fas' list of concerns, spot on, imho ! ( 3 bullet points post # 8610)

    The most dangerous time in Cytori's history.

    Cash !!! Its been the real issue for all these years and still they cant get it right.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 12:24 #8612

    • rodney.strongg
    • rodney.strongg's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 1277
    • Thank you received: 18
    HF wrote that this is "the most dangerous time in Cytori's history" - perhaps, but it is also the most exciting and potentially the most rewarding time in Cytori's history - 2017 is going to be the critical year as to whether the Company can achieve its truly huge potential. JMHO.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 16:28 #8613

    • franshei
    • franshei's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 788
    • Thank you received: 102
    Fas and Rodney Strong (who might be old Chuck),

    1. TeChung Lee (from Taiwan) is an associate research professor at SUNY/Buffalo (where I spent 4 years to earn my PHD in Clinical Pharmacology).

    2. I really think the AZA deal opens door for CYTX for partnerships and new money. The BARDA phase I trial/IDE may be the first attempt to do targeted cell therapy by iv route. It is possilbe that AZA and CYTX scientists have been working together for a while on the BARDA preclinicals. Success in preclinical animal models may have prompted CYTX to buy out the AZA liposome assets. Of course, with CYTX's checked past, one one have faith that this deal is a big deal.

    3. I think Hedrick and Hayden have tied hard to find partnerships for OA and the Cardio indications and maybe others (while CYTX thinks they can manage the scleroderma and the secondary Raynaud marketing and development by themselves - no need to have a fire sale), but this "old" platform may have hit stone wall again and again.

    4. I think big pharmas love newer generation of cell therapy - even if the r/d stage is still early. There is money available.

    If targeted cell therapy by iv route works in the clinics, it may be a very big deal.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 22 Jan 2017 18:53 #8614

    • myownhedgefund
    • myownhedgefund's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2761
    • Thank you received: 199
    franshei
    Curious why you think BARDA would be a target for this while understanding the talk of IV use their and that skin is a organ.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 04:48 #8616

    • fas
    • fas's Avatar Topic Author
    • Offline
    • Moderator
    • Moderator
    • May the fat be with you
    • Posts: 3295
    • Thank you received: 1110

    myownhedgefund wrote: If targeting is indeed what is needed then I also view this is something I have said all along with the IV approach. There was nothing to stop the cells to going to areas for repair you don't want them to.


    Hedge- I do not want to search for it, but in my head I have it as FACT, that the burn clinic will be IV. I think the source was Cytori or DOV after talking to Hedrick or both.

    From a really basic perspective and using simple common sense- cells IV will do fine with any person, who is reasonably healthy and is hit by an acute injury- whatever burn, radiation, trauma etc. The cells will know what to do and where to go.
    But like you elude to yourself, of course you are correct- a 70 year old obese person suffering from the metabolic syndrome, who is chronically ill, will have, vascular, heart, kidney, pancreas,liver, colon, sphincter etc etc problems. Present medical thinking is not geared to treating everything at once, but all disorders- i.e. symptoms are treated separately, so one has to adapt to the system, although cells would do fine I think (in the right dose and repetitions).

    Coming to think of it- Osiris i.e. Joshua Hare et al did their heart MI clinic IV. My thinking was at the time that was because of the diameter cell size which would crush them going thru a small needle delivering them by catheter. Anyway- although the patients were not chronically ill, the main benefit was improved lung function and the app was not pursued in Phase III after MESO took over prochymal.
    The following user(s) said Thank You: rongside

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 05:46 #8617

    • myownhedgefund
    • myownhedgefund's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2761
    • Thank you received: 199
    Thanks for the comments Fas and yes you hit the nail on the head.
    Let me explain what I meant further.
    In the post you highlighted I was indeed thinking of the chronic pathway where multiple morbidities often present themselves.
    In my question to Franshei in a separate post within this thread I did question his thinking on BARDA and why he felt this tech would be applied. That questioning, in my mind, was from a timetable perspective.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 05:51 #8618

    • myownhedgefund
    • myownhedgefund's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2761
    • Thank you received: 199
    Just to further the above post.
    Even in acute injuries such as a burn, one can also have other trauma such as a burn sustained in a motor vehicle accident when there could be other traumatic injuries as well. eg. broken bones, lacerated liver ect.
    What if a burn victim jumped from a burning building ? Same issues possible.
    Anyway, way ahead of our selves.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 06:38 #8619

    • rongside
    • rongside's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 377
    • Thank you received: 196
    It is kismet: even the new technology revolves around body fat.:joy:
    The word liposome derives from two Greek words: lipo ("fat") and soma ("body").

    Cytori has chosen to go the IV route for the BARDA burn trial. They chose that route as it provided comparable results to the more complex and difficult process of injecting topically around the wound bed after debridement.

    In scleroderma of the hand we argue that the stem cells (ADRC) are sticky and stay in the area to be treated. In wound healing (burns) we have proof that they can home into the site of injury............... How great is that !!!!!!!

    It would seem that autologous fat's ability to home in on the site of the wound is not impaired by not using some fancy new technology. Of course the intended wound site may not get the optimum number of ADRC but who is to say that they are not providing relief elsewhere where it is needed.

    No doubt one day in the not too distant future their will be technology
    in place that will facilitate the homing in of the trophic factors (if not cells) to the site of the wound requiring treatment. This is a normal technological/evolutionary development and if we are lucky CYTX may be a player, with the new acquisition.

    But first we must walk. The first steps are autologous ADRC therapy.
    The body of work being undertaken by researchers worldwide in this area is mind blowing (and gratifying). There are a large number of clinics that are already applying treatments to patients, admittedly without the requisite underlying supportive research.

    CYTX is not falling behind ....... it's just that the rate of technological change and requirements of the FDA and market place may possibly be superseding our current technology. How strong are our patents?
    Can they be defended? Will the FDA enforce its policy? Will insurers be prompt in negotiating and paying for these new treatments? These will immediately become the pressing issues when we get our first approval.

    ADRC are so promising and yet have proven difficult to realize that promise. Mistakes have been made. YES. But if the promise of autologous ADRC are realized the benefit to mankind vis a vis the capital expended will be a joke ....... with regard MY financial contributions to date the jury is still out.:cry:

    The challenges to management (and shareholders) will truly begin the moment they are successful in their first trial and get approval. I confess that I am worried about management's ability to deal with these challenges. Lets hope they have a plan ....... perhaps one day we may even be lucky enough to be told what it is.:KO:

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 06:55 #8620

    • fas
    • fas's Avatar Topic Author
    • Offline
    • Moderator
    • Moderator
    • May the fat be with you
    • Posts: 3295
    • Thank you received: 1110
    Hedge/Franshei

    I agree with Hedge that time was way too short for scientists of both Companies to have accomplished anything with a view to Barda.

    Maybe its best to forget Azaya for a while- our present tech is unique and wanted by clinicians, although I confess, the patentability and delivery might be barriers for BP to get involved. Anyway- following Caplan- whenever acute injury occurs the pericytes are recruited from the blood vessels and secrete the healing trophic factors and guard the place of injury with an "auto-immune" shield.
    Be it internal- or external, the body reacts on injury with inflammation followed by the other phases as depicted in the image.
    My view/thinking therefore would be that the level/degree of inflammation at any place in the body would attract IV inputted cells after which the cells assist in the proliferation and maturation phases.
    Attachments:

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 09:10 #8621

    • Wall Street Titan
    • Wall Street Titan's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 874
    • Thank you received: 148
    The idea that radiation burn in the BARDA program would be the target for the new technology acquired in the merger really seems far fetched for a simple reason. Ironically, one of the main attributes that got BARDA interested in Cytori in the first place was the autologous model. The idea that you don't have to store frozen doses that have a limited shelf life was one of the main reasons Cytori got this mandate in the first place. On demand autologous cells makes sense for a worse case scenario nuclear incident that could happen tomorrow, 15 years form now or never. No need to store, discard and then restock allogeneic doses. This application for an emergency situation that may never happen is the only situation that I can think of where autologous has advantages over allogeneic.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 10:55 #8622

    • franshei
    • franshei's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 788
    • Thank you received: 102
    For drugs, FDA requires tissue distribution studies (IND and NDA) in an animal model, using tracer technique - very simple experiment (can be completed within a week). In this classical pharmacology study, early drug elimination profile is also characterized.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 11:25 #8623

    • franshei
    • franshei's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 788
    • Thank you received: 102
    AZA is really a drug delivery company, using liposomal technology, which is now well established (with very tough start some 30 years ago. Every liposomal company has their own niche.

    In essence, bioequivalency studies are the key passage for FDA approval ( if other liposomal preparations of the same drug is already on the market). Animal and human BE studies are very simple and there many contract research organizations are doing this type of studies all the time. The number of human volunteers in each study is very, very limited (say 12 or so with crossover). The kind of data is very well established over the past 40 years and obtainable in about one month. Typically, the FDA is asking for pharmacokinetc data, not pharmacodynamic data. The cost for such a study is about $ 100,000 (it used to be below $ 10,000).

    FDA has a separate unit to handle this kind of approval (the head is from SUNY/Buffalo).

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 23 Jan 2017 23:04 #8625

    • myownhedgefund
    • myownhedgefund's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2761
    • Thank you received: 199
    Thanks for the additional input franshei.
    I still think this really doesn't fit right now to what the BARDA project was envisioned to be, as WST pointed out. Does anyone ever REALLY know what this company is up to from one quarter to the next ? The sands of the Sahara don't shift this much...LOL.
    Anyway, if this deal does close at the end of Feb. then maybe the March call can bring it all together for better understanding. Ha !

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 24 Jan 2017 09:20 #8628

    • rothco619
    • rothco619's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 467
    • Thank you received: 67
    Cytori is DOA and it is clear that it has been nothing more them a scam that has unfortunately been aided by many on this board.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Druggable, Techung Lee´s Hamsters and Liposomal Distribution 24 Jan 2017 10:38 #8629

    • Wall Street Titan
    • Wall Street Titan's Avatar
    • Offline
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 874
    • Thank you received: 148
    Hedge,

    IMHO, it's just as likely that the motivation for this transaction was the idea that it would create a sustained pop in the share price and volume to get better pricing under the Lincoln Park equity line. Hedrick mentioned "made in America" and tried to position CYTX as a Trump trade, LOL. That hasn't happened so they had better get that cancer partner deal ASAP or the balance sheet hole just got deeper.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    • Page:
    • 1
    • 2
    Time to create page: 2.703 seconds

    Copyright Information

    Copyright Fas Kuiters © 2016 young-foxes.com. All Rights Reserved.
    This page is made with Joomla CMS and its various templates designed by Fas Kuiters with the excellent Themler tool.

     

     

    Shared Spreadsheet Links

    DOV´s Revised Projections for the Periods 2017 until 2020

    Shareble link : HERE

    Fas Kuiters Websites