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TOPIC: Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ???

Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 09:30 #1829

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Still waiting for news on BARDA and whatever else may eventuate. I just thought that we may consider some "pie in the sky" scenarios while we wait.

We are all aware of the benefits of using autologous adipose derived regenerative cells. Has anyone come across any research concerning the potential allogeneic use of FRESH adipose derived regenerative cells.

I appreciate that mesenchymal stem cells may not be very likely to induce an autoimmune/allergic reaction .......... the question is whether the other cells included in the SVF are likely to cause an adverse reaction? After all, the gemisch is what provides the therapeutic effect. Would a younger healthy donor (eg. compatible family member) be able to provide a more vigorous treatment effect with a manageable/negligible allergic reaction?. This may well be possible as we are not talking about systemic substitution of the patient's autoimmune system.

I appreciate that this conjecture is premature given that we have yet to see the financial benefits of autologous ADRC therapy, but consider how awesome it would be if we could all access the vigour of youth.

Perhaps there may be a way of separating those cells that are likely to cause an immune reaction from the SVF. IF so, this may well provide a more interesting approach than that undertaken by most of our competitors who are focused on putting all their eggs on BM derived and expanded mesenchymal stem cells.?

:vegas: :vegas: :vegas: Its 43 degrees in Athens and I feel like a beer. :vegas: :vegas: :vegas:
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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 11:18 #1830

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Rongside, Allogeneic use of SVF is already being done by a company called Tigenix.... www.tigenix.com/en/page/18/easc

WST

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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 11:56 #1831

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John-

I vividly remember that I was very upset, when Paco (Francisco Fernandez-Avilez) was shown in a Spanish video and my friend (who was fluent in Spanish) told me , he was suggesting banking FRESH fat cells for use of patients suffering from different ailments.

Since than I have not picked up anything more on the subject.

I do not know for sure- but my guess is it could work (although the fact that fat cells do not age as bad as BM cells makes them less attractive for allo use - I guess. Personally- I would never want anything but my own).

Again- Caplan- if you look at the last picture- the approx. 35% of pericytes or MSC precursors would probably "protect" the whole SVF when activated upon injury.Also- the smooth muscle cells, leukocytes etc etc from an allogeneic source.

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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 11:59 #1832

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Oh forgot- that video of Paco was from 2009 or there abouts.

Congrats to your countries soccer players reaching the second round of the World Cup for the first time.

Great stuff!! :vegas:

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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 12:50 #1833

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WST- Tigenix (former Cellerix) makes allogeneic brews i.e. cultured MSCs plus some Tregs I believe. That is- NOT fresh and John certainly knows them very well.

John- while waiting for BARDA- a question to you.

I personally never got into the BARDA thing all that much, since it came at a time when I had other things on my mind and it "appeared" like a waste of time- i.e. proving in primates what had been proven in humans already.

Now- in view of the future platform (I will share Calhoun´s vision thereof in the next days) there is the immune-modulatory aspect of ADRCs or better - in respect of the primate study- the ARS (acute radiation syndrom) part of that one could do in that primate study. I believe you wrote that John Fraser indicated that they would certainly study the systemic impact caused by ARS on the gastro-intestinal system and the relief that ADRCs would provide the animals for those symptoms.

Do you recall? Thanks
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Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 16:17 #1834

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Correct Fas, I missed the word "FRESH".

WST

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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 26 Jun 2014 18:28 #1835

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Fas - The comment about looking at ARS comes from John Fraser himself. See pages 13 and 14 from the link below.

ir.cytori.com/files/doc_downloads/Transcripts/BARDA%20Transcript_9.28.12.pdf

If you consider his comment about it being impossible to run normal trials on humans for ARS, and that animal trials are the only alternative his following comment that : "Let me say that I think it would be remissive for us to design experimental studies which irradiated animals and did not look at some of the other organ systems that would be damaged by radiation." is potentially huge.

The design of the study is unknown so we have no way of knowing whether the animals received some form of systemic treatment eg. intravascular injection along side the burn treatment. I do know however that Kiwis are generally no nonsense sort of people so I trust JF to have designed an interesting trial design that will adress some of these issues.

As ARS trials are unlikely to be ever undertaken in humans outside a catastrophic event ...... positive data from this trial may well be of paramount importance to the BARDA administration ............ not to mention the ramifications for human health in general. If this is the case and becomes understood by the broader investment community then anything can happen (or not - this is Cytori after all) .

The Celution device will be a MUST HAVE DEVICE if it shows that it materially affects the mortality of radiation exposed animals. Quite possibly without even having to go through the FDA hoopla. Of course the thermal burn trial will be subject to FDA oversight ......... but wouldn't it be fun to see it being undertaken while we are shipping devices across the country........... wake me up....... I think i'm dreaming. :nice:

Greece's performance todate in the World Cup hasn't been very attractive or compelling..... it has however been effective. Anything from here on in is simply icing on the cake.......... Have to admit that I like the Dutch team's style of play.

Absolutely right about Tigenix. Not really a competitor as they only use the progenitor MSC, not the gemisch, and they go through the cell expansion phase which I am not certain is necessary for a therapeutic effect.
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Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 27 Jun 2014 05:30 #1836

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Thanks John-

I never read this transcript, but had this sentence in the back of my mind, so you must have quoted Fraser before at one point in time.

Just to summarize from the transcript-

Kolbert: Hi, guys. Yeah, just one follow-up and that's along the lines of the things you've already discussed. But given the
incredible amount of data that you have in men, it's kind of interesting that because of the way BARDA operates,
you kind of have to go back almost in time to the animal-based trials. Is there any opportunity to do a proof-ofconcept
study directly in men or do you know that, in fact, it's going to have to driven down the animal pathway?
Fraser: BARDA's primary interest here, certainly the pure thermal burn we've discussed is internal and intrinsic to
the contract. But their primary interest is in combined injury, which is a very unusual situation of a patient who
has a thermal burn and radiation injury and the only way to do that is to go into animals.

Kolbert: Got it. Thank you, that really clarifies it. So, in order to have a trial with radiation exposure, you start with
animals. Is there a thought down the road, though, that this might be something that could be used in oncology
patients?
Fraser: Let me just make what I perceive as a slight correction here. The clinical trial will be in pure thermal burn with no
radiation. The BARDA wants a product to treat combined injury, and the only ethical way to get the data they need
to get to that proof of concept is in animals. That being said, the clinical data that both Chris and Marc have
alluded to already in patients who have radiation-related wounds, the data we're going to get in this animal model
and will, I think, lead to an improvement in the sequelae of radiotherapy, some of the side effects – negative side
effects of injury from radiotherapy – i.e. cancer therapy.

Kolbert: Got it. Thank you. I do understand, but let me ask another question, which is as we start – particularly as we talk
about the sequelae associated with radiation, an acute – is there any opportunity here to do other work as that
relates to acute radiation syndrome, whether it's on the heme (??) side or the GI side or pneumonitis?
Fraser: Let me say that I think it would be remissive for us to design experimental studies which irradiated animals and
did not look at some of the other organ systems that would be damaged by radiation
.


This aspect makes BARDA also compelling to me and one wonders why the technology has not been adopted by the Japanese government after Fukushima especially with all available "connections".

I believe this is still outstanding and possibly for the whole globe. :vegas: :vegas:

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Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 27 Jun 2014 05:54 #1837

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Just to put this on the "to do" list of all shareholders reading here-

WE - the shareholders- should be informed of the results of this primate study, especially on the ARS side and of course -as John has already mentioned- on the 25 patient MI study-ADVANCE.

These results should be available -AT THIS POINT IN TIME -


so- WHY ARE WE NOT INFORMED???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? :bash: :bang: :bash:

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Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Allogeneic use of Adipose SVF ??? 27 Jun 2014 08:43 #1838

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Question:

If Fas yells in the Forest and no one from Cytori is there to hear, does he make a sound ? LOL :evil:

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